Zombie Aid
This is a serious one. It’s also a pretty hefty one, but it needs to be – so bear with me.
Zombie Aid
In 2009 an organisation called Zombie Aid appeared in Manchester. It was set up by Carl Whiteley – in fact Zombie Aid pretty much is Carl Whiteley - and aimed to raise money for charity while breaking world records involving numbers of zombies. The relevant world record attempts failed (one in summer, one in winter), but people had a good time and some money (“over £3000″) was raised for charity – participants paid a minimum £2 ‘donation’ for attending.
If this post is starting to look a bit daunting, then please just read this next bit:
Zombie Aid is not a registered charity
At no point during the establishment of Zombie Aid did Carl set it up to be a charity in any way - when Zombie Aid collect your money, they are not doing so as a charity, or as any kind of official fundraiser.
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The Halloween Parade
So in 2010, Zombie Aid did another event. After an abortive attempt to involve SportCity, Zombie Aid got itself a sponsor (Smiffy’s, a fancy dress company), and organised a bigger, more inclusive ‘Halloween Parade‘, again through Manchester. Again, they collected a £2 donation from participants, and again lots of people attended and had fun. On November 1st (the day after the Parade), Zombie Aid made an announcement on their website (pictured) “Please revisit the website: we will update it as soon as we can with the amount of money you helped raise for charity”.
In March 2011, as there had still been no announcement, I contacted Carl and asked him about the money raised. The initial conversations were via Facebook, and are below:
facebook conversation with Carl Whiteley
I was understandably shocked – this was the first time anyone had heard that no money at all had been donated to any of the charities (I was also shocked to discover that Carl apparently has to pay for his hotmail account…).
Carl’s excuse for this seems to be that he spent the money received as donations on expenses related to the event (or expenses related to an entirely different (failed) Zombie Aid event – but we don’t really need to go into that).
The problem is that Carl (both as himself and as Zombie Aid) stated repeatedly, before the event, that 100% of donations go directly to charity. But don’t just take my word for it:
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There’s no grey area here – it’s not “our profits go to charity” or “what’s left over after expenses goes to charity” or even “what’s left over after our wages” goes to charity – it’s ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of everything you donate goes to charity – or at least that’s what was supposed to happen.
After making that claim, it doesn’t matter what your expenses are – you cannot pay them with the charities’ money!
Carl also banned me from the Zombie Aid Facebook group (presumably for publicly asking where the money went) and then phoned me at home to swear at me – but he did calm down a bit and answer some questions while he was on the phone (you will have to take my word for this bit (or not), because I didn’t record the conversation, I just took notes while we were talking (so there’s probably some paraphrasing) – this is all from the same conversation on 14/03/2011):
Me: How much money did the walk raise? You said it was a success.
Carl: It was – I sat and counted over £1900 in donations that day [the day of the Halloween Parade]
Me: How many people attended? How come none of that made it to the charity?
Carl: Around 3,000. I spent £1500 on advertising, the police cost £1500 – the council paid half of that – I lost a lot of money on promotions.
Carl: The stuff on the charities page on the website only refers to Zombie Aid; it doesn’t mention the Hallowe’en Parade anywhere on that page. It’s old information.
Me: You advertise the Hallowe’en Parade on the same site, and the Zombie Aid Facebook group.
Carl: I wanted to promote it to the zombie aid people.
Me: You don’t say anywhere on the site that they are separate things or run with separate rules
Carl: I didn’t know I fucking had to [apologises for swearing]
Me: People go to the zombie aid website to get info on the Hallowe’en parade; the only page on the zombie aid website about charities talks about Manchester, mentions the three charities involved in the Hallowe’en parade (specifically including Make-A-Wish, who were not a beneficiary of previous walks), and says that “100% of donations go to charity”. Even if you didn’t intend it to refer to the Hallowe’en Parade, can you not see that it would be at the very least misleading?
Carl: …Yeah, maybe.
Carl: Zombie Aid and the Hallowe’en Parade are separate things; they’re not the same.
Me: Are they separate organisations? Are they registered as companies / seperate entities? Is either registered as an entity?
Carl: No
Me: So Zombie Aid is basically Carl Whiteley?
Carl: Yes
Me: And the Hallowe’en Parade, is that Carl Whiteley?
Carl: Yes.
Me: I think you need to state on the website or on the Facebook group that the Hallowe’en Parade didn’t raise any money for charity.
Carl: I don’t want to do that because it’s too embarrassing.
Me: Yeah, it might be – but it’s true. Big charities sometimes have to do things like that as well.
Carl: Besides, we did raise some money – from the sales of the single1, which the parade promoted. And I got a letter from one of the charities thanking me – saying, despite… even though we didn’t send them any money, thanks for promoting them.
Me: Which charity was that?
Carl: Manchester Carer’s.
1Zombie Aid were also involved in the launch of a ‘Zombie Aid Charity Single’, which was sold via Amazon and Play.com, with proceeds going to charity – from the Zombie Aid website “In 2010 The Charity single was launched and sold over 500 copies. The exact figures are not in yet , but we have raised over £200 for the make a wish foundation. Once we receive all data and figures we will update and let you know.”
Carl then (later that evening) posted this announcement to the Zombie Aid group on Facebook (he lifted my ban and thanked me for my “valid concerns” as well):
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Which – even though I wasn’t entirely satisfied – brought things to a conclusion. While the charities in question were still down nearly £2000, it could have been an honest mistake on Carl’s part – or simple incompetence – and pursuing the matter further was getting tiring, especially as it looked like Carl wasn’t planning on doing any more fundraising…
Dead Island
On the 14th July I received notification that Zombie Aid are planning yet another zombie walk – this time sponsored by Deep Silver, the developers of the upcoming Dead Island videogame. Carl and Zombie Aid once again started making promises about charitable donations :
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Facebook conversation from 'Zombie Aid 2011 with Dead Island' event
So What?
The problem as I see it is that Zombie Aid has previously asked for charitable donations, which people have given in good faith and that money hasn’t found its way into the hands of the charities involved.
To some degree it doesn’t matter whether this was caused by incompetence or avarice – it happened, and so I can’t sit back and think it will never happen again. Ideally, there need to be some measures in place to ensure that it cannot happen – such as official charity representatives handling all donations; or the promotional material making it clear that the £2 donation is being spent on Zombie Aid expenses and not being given to charity (I’d prefer the former, for obvious ‘the charity gets some money’ reasons).
In the absence of measures being put in place by Zombie Aid, I can only recommend that attendees at Zombie Aid events who wish to ensure their donations go to charity do so by donating directly to the charities involved. In the case of the upcoming 2011 Dead Island Zombie Walk, the beneficiary is intended to be Special Effect (Charity no. 1121004), who are able to receive donations here.
At the time of writing (2nd August 2011), the Facebook event for the 2011 Dead Island Zombie Walk has been updated:
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Although this has yet to be confirmed by an announcement or statement from Carl or Zombie Aid. If the event really has been cancelled, then I’ll just mention donating directly to Special Effect again here. For no good reason other than ‘donating to them is a good reason’.
Similarly, if you’re from one of the many groups who raise money throughout the year and pass your donations on to Zombie Aid – please bear in mind that Zombie Aid is not a charity, and they have in the past failed to pass donations on to those registered charities they claim to support.
If you are intending to raise money for a charity, you are always best advised to donate that money directly to that charity.
If you are intending to raise money for Carl Whiteley, then by all means – carry on.
Statements
Smiffy’s – sponsor of the 2010 Halloween Parade - told me:
Smiffy’s (28th July 2011):
This is the first we have heard of [donations not being received by the charities]. We have been trying unsuccessfully to contact Carl since you first spoke to us, and cannot comment further at the moment as we are still investigating.
Smiffy’s have no plans to work with Zombie Aid or Carl Whiteley in the future.
The Printworks Manchester – start and finish point of all three Zombie Aid events – said:
The Printworks (2nd August 2011):
We were more involved with the two events in 2009. The 2010 [Halloween Parade] event was always a Carl Whiteley & Manchester City Council event; we were not very involved with that.
We didn’t deal with money or donations directly, and were unaware about how much was donated to charity, although we are aware that expenses were incurred by Carl (but cannot comment on the specifics). The upcoming [2011 Dead Island Zombie Walk] event is ‘pencilled in’ as far as we are concerned, pending confirmation from their [Zombie Aid's] sponsor and Manchester City Council.
The Printworks does not charge Zombie Aid for the use of its premises.
Deep Silver - sponsor of the upcoming (and now possibly cancelled) 2011 Dead Island Zombie Walk – were unavailable for comment at the time of publication.
In Closing
If you’ve read this far you’re probably asking yourself why I’ve put so much time and effort in.
One of the main reasons is that one of the charities involved is the Christie cancer hospital, where my mum was treated until she died. It’s somewhere pretty important to me and mine, and and I don’t want to see them being let down (or worse).
Another reason is that – contrary to what you may be thinking – I like zombies and zombie-related things. I think the idea of a charity zombie walk is a pretty good one – but I don’t want to see that idea being mismanaged or perverted (and zombies already get enough bad press; they don’t need any more!). I’m really looking forward to the upcoming Dead Island game – even if I don’t really agree with Deep Silver’s sponsorship of Zombie Aid. I have enjoyed dressing up as a zombie, and I probably will do again – but probably not at an event organised by Zombie Aid (at least not in their current incarnation).
You’ve see the same evidence I have and you know the same things I know. That’s the point of this post – a lot of this information wasn’t particularly public, and I feel like it deserves to be.
Now you can make your own minds up about Zombie Aid and Carl Whiteley, and whether you are willing to give them money, or whether you’d rather donate directly to charity. Only Carl knows what his intentions were, and what actually happened with the financing of the 2010 Halloween Parade – but it’s a matter of public record that no money from the Halloween Parade ended up being donated to charity.
That’s enough for me to say that I won’t give him or Zombie Aid any money in future.
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Posted by Dave in Bastardry, Politics (2/08/2011 at 18:00).
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£1,500 on publicity? Really? With so many free newspapers and websites and lazy journalists BEGGING for content, I find that hard to believe.
Disgusting. And I normally don’t use that word whenever zombies are involved.
While it doesn’t sound like Carl started off with dishonest intentions, it does appear that he dug himself a fine hole and tried to use further “charity events” to dig himself out.
People should always give donations directly to the charity whenever possible.
You were right to bring this all out into the open.
This article contains false information. Dave has done nothing but try and bring down this organisation for months. Calling up people, being rude… a sad man with nothing better to do.
I happen to know Carl. He spends months a year planning these events. Doesnt get paid. Manchester City Football club cancelled an event last min that loads of money was spent on causing them loads of grief.
Setting up an event costs money Yes @blogmella, publicity costs money. Half a page in a sci fi mag is like a grand. Events need to be publicised. Its completley legal to use finds to cover expenses, thats how organisations work.
Zombie-Aid is national , events all over, in total they raise thousands a year. So one event out of three lost money? so what, thousands of people had a good time and charities got publicity (manchester carers centre knew there was no money raised, but thanked him for all his hard work and for putting word out about them)
Do you know how much events are? For a charity event policing is over £2000, fliers and posters over £500. Not to mention all other costs.
People like you make me sick. You have spent what looks like a year trying to dig up dirt on this group and lad and all you come up with is maybees. Well dip shit, i think you should check yer facts. I have a flier from Halloween and its states PROCEEDS to charity. I also know that the single did raised £220 and ALL of it went to make a wish
Sad pathetic jobless tossers!
Disgusting… not Zombie aid… the tool writing this. Again I know this event well, go all the time.
if this event gets approx 2000 people and they all donate £2 thats £4000. Now I KNOW that half people on this wont pay and just join in. So that’s between £2000 and £3000.
Now, I found out about this event through a flier in 2009. Like the above stated fliers cost, not just printing but design. So lets say £500.
Website – running costs of about £100 a year. But a well designed one like the Zombie Aid one must have cost a good £500 minimum.
The charity single, that’s mega, looks great what did that cost? I see that all donations did go to the makeawish charity. So this looks ok to me.
So, from what I gather, this one event failed to make money, where all other events have and have been a success.
I got the facebook message saying that the Halloween parade failed to make money. I donated my £2 too. I also put money in the collection buckets that some of the charities had so I KNOW that must have reached charity.
Manchester 2009, I saw that Zombie-Aid was mentioned on Children in Need as they raised money for them. Cash for kids, the variety club, cancer research and the Christies all got money from 2009.
Who are we to judge this mans intentions. The amount of work that must go into that must be epic. Zombie-Aid, Carl, I take my hat off to you. Many new business’s and organizations hit hard times. Your work is great!
Even if to took away the charity angle I would still come and donate my £2 as its a cracking and cheap event
Looks to me like a case of envious eyes. Shame on you Mr Blogger
PS why has the previous comment been deleted. Are you censoring this page?
OMG
He deleted my comment. Just proves you are a liar Dave. ZOmbie-Aid is cool!!!
Simon & Lisa – your posts weren’t deleted, they were invisible.
Your first comments to this site are moderated, which means I need to approve them before they go public.
This is an anti-spam measure; I’m not censoring anyone who isn’t trying to enlarge my penis. It does mean there is a delay before your comments go live (because I need to be online to approve them) – although this delay should only apply to your first comment on the site; any subsequent comments should go through okay.
The same will apply to anyone else commenting – if you have not commented on my blog before, your comment will not be visible until I approve it – after which you should be free to comment without any delays.
Lisa - the flier may well have said ‘proceeds’, which is certainly a bit of an ambiguous term.
Two websites said ‘donations’. The official Zombie Aid website spelled out that all costs were covered and that ‘every penny’ would go to charity. There are screenshots up there from the Zombie Aid site – nobody has to take my word for it; I’m asking them to look at what was advertised – on the sites – at the time of the event.
I’m not talking maybes; those are facts (some of which were confirmed by Carl). Whether you choose to believe or act on this evidence is up to you.
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Simon - I’m not trying to judge Carl’s intentions, just his actions. While Zombie Aid does seem have raised money for charity in 2009, the event in 2010 definitely didn’t.
I couldn’t in good conscience allow an event with a near-identical description and set-up take to place (this year) without informing people about what had gone before. This is something I think Zombie Aid should have done themselves in the first place, by opening up their books and making a full and frank statement, rather than sweeping it under the carpet.
It took Zombie Aid SIX MONTHS to state that the Halloween Parade made no money – and this statement, which was only made because I started asking questions – has since been removed from the Zombie Aid Facebook groups.
These do not look to me like the actions of a group with nothing to hide or nothing to be ashamed of.
My goal has never been to stop the zombie walk from happening, but to ensure that the charities involved get their money. There’s a reason I keep linking to Special Effect – I don’t want them to lose out on anything, but I can’t pretend I believed they’d get any money from the 2011 walk, either.
“Even if to took away the charity angle I would still come and donate my £2 as its a cracking and cheap event”
Yep, the two zombie walks I went on were fun. BUT if an event uses charities as a way to motivate people to attend, then the charities MUST get something more than a heads up out of it. Christies don’t need a zombie walk to make their name known BTW.
100% of donations will go to charity was said in more than one place and it wasn’t true. You had your fun – but the Charities got NOTHING from the Halloween Parade. And apparently some of my Council Tax went to pay for half the policing.
Ok I see your point. However, who are you to “allow an event to take place”
As stated I am a veteran of Zombie walks, and have not been under the illusion that 100% would go to charity. I heard the single money was to. Looking at your blog I see that there does appear to be a mix up. But it doesn’t seem anything big.
It’s obvious that last years summer event looked like it was a big un. If that was cancelled does it not seem obvious that there must have been big money tied up. A theme park, national advertising, a FOOTBALL STADIUM!! Come on,,, that would be a strain on anyone’s pocket.
All I am saying is I follow this too, I don’t know why you didn’t know that Halloween raised no money because I knew. I looked on the Halloween website. It was there. Your queries on Zombie aid are one thing, but a personal attack is another. You seem to be articulate, your heart seems in the right place too, but I question whether this is a personal grudge!
I cannot comment on this year as all I knew so far is that it was happening. I think you should talk to organisers, get the real low down. But give that bloke a break! I see him at events running around stressing. Must be tough work keeping all those zombies in check!
@blogmella
Yes I heard council paid half police costs. The fact that police charge is bad enough, but it was a city event. It made news all over. Perhaps The Christie don’t need more publicity but whats the harm. I know the carers needed it!
I agree charity events should raise money. This is a charity fundraising event and it looks clear to me that costs have outweighed donations. Who’s to blame? the people not donating (and there were a lot joining in from the outside) or people trying to put on a good show?
To me Zombie walk is about more than charity. After all we can all just sit in and donate from our macs, its about interaction.
I still cant see where it says this 100%? Iv’e looked all over. All I see are screen shots the blogger posted. Are these actually from another event?
I think your all being to harsh, it’s clear these guys have good intentions, and yea, perhaps they need guidance. Being belittled however is not right. You say you do it for the charities… well judging by the cancellation of this years you have actually STOPPED money being raised.
come on guys,,, take this rubbish offline
“All I am saying is I follow this too, I don’t know why you didn’t know that Halloween raised no money because I knew”
You knew because Dave spoke to Carl and got him to post about it. Before that the Zombie Aid site only spoke of the great success of the walk. It took MONTHS to say what had become of the money.
You know what? If Carl had been upfront and arranged an event to pay off the MCFC debt we probably would have attended and donated. But if you say you are collecting for Christies or a kids charity, you should do just that.
Simon – The announcement that the Halloween Parade raised no money only came on the 14th March 2011; AFTER I contacted Carl (and six months after the event) – if you look at the first picture in my blog entry up there you can see the announcement gap (and there weren’t any other announcements elsewhere on the Zombie Aid site or Facebook groups between those dates, either)
Also, I didn’t mean ‘allow it to take place’ but ‘allow it to happen without doing my best to inform people of the facts’. I wouldn’t want anyone to give their money to Zombie Aid without knowing its history (once they know it, they can make their own minds up)
Similarly – I’m not denying that these events are expensive to organise; my point is that you can’t tell people “All your donations go to charity” before the event and then say “Actually, we spent all of your donations on expenses” afterwards. EVEN IF your expenses were far higher than you expected, and EVEN IF you are left massively out of pocket.
(incidentally the “100%” screenshots I posted are dated if you mouseover them (the date information is embedded in the image file as well) and were from the Zombie Aid website during the build-up to (and for several months after) the Halloween Parade. You’ll notice other things that date them – such as references to Smiffy’s as a sponsor, and the events sidebar headed by ‘Manchester 31 October 2010′)
I will however make clear the point that I am definitely NOT making any kind of personal attack on Carl Whiteley; I don’t know Carl, I don’t think I’ve ever met him (unless we were both zombies, in which case I didn’t recognise him), I’ve only communicated with him on a few occasions – all enquiries relating to these events. My interest in him stops and starts with Zombie Aid.
No, I knew soon after. The only thing I wasn’t sure about was the single. They were having issues with figures. This stuff happens I guess.
But Blogmella… you are on here and arguing… yet you didnt even attend.
Of course they didn’t say.. “now we are doing a Halloween Parade to cover lost money ” that’s silly. They put on another event hoping to recoup costs and raise money. TV and media say over 2000 people were there. Less than half of these 2000 would have donated to make enough to cover costs. It’s those that should be answering.
Also they did raise money for a kids charity with the single. It didnt take months, I knew a few weeks after. You both speak like you know him personally. This is starting to look like a smear campaign.
“well judging by the cancellation of this years you have actually STOPPED money being raised”
What money? And where would it go? Don’t you get it? NO MONEY went to the charities from the last walk. The council, the Printworks, the police… Do you think it would have gone ahead if it hadn’t been arranged as a CHARITY event? You can’t use the charities and then not donate! WTF? Would it have been sanctioned by the local authorities (or sponsored)if it was obviously just going to reimburse Carl for his lost revenue?
If his previous debts were so HUGE (and he has done events before, so he must have had an IDEA of the costs of this one) how can he say he thought he’d be able to help the charities too? HOW?
And lots of people went and didn’t pay at all (apparently) – in which case, why should they get another “charity” event?
Hello Dave
Thanks for clearing that up. So it’s not a personal attack. Still reads that way! I happen to know that Manchester Carers Centre were also helping with organise these events. The Football one and Halloween.
I know this because I looked into the cancellation. As a blues fan I was interested. As it happens a site that the funfair was to be on was not completed in time. I actually joined a petition group asking that MCFC helped with finances. They didn’t, but that’s rich folk for ya.
So, I digress sorry, several meetings took place with organisers, council and the Carers Charity was present for them AND at the Halloween walk. I cant speak for The Christie but this charity was fully aware of the situation.
Perhaps there was a gap on the facebook group and website. The Halloween Parade website was updated the following week with news and comments. It’s since been abandoned and does not work.
And I wasn’t aware that Halloween was a Zombie Aid. Just organised by the same people. Who cares.
Simon – Posted on Zombie-Aid MANCHESTER’s wall (by Carl)
“Sadly a rather bored and foolish member of the public decided he would cause a few issues with our Sponsors and charities.”
That sounds like a smear. Dave has been talking about facts and providing screenshots.
Hmm, perhaps not the best choice of words. IS he aware its you? does he know of this blog?
I have actually found a screen shot for the Halloween Parade website. Its clearly states on there that a £2 will be asked for with PROCEEDS going to charity. Looks above board to me!
Simon – If you’ve got a link to where that was announced, then that would help prove me wrong and go some way to saying Zombie Aid weren’t trying to conceal the results of the Halloween Parade.
As I keep saying, the point of this post is to get the information out to as many people as possible. What they do with it once they have it is beyond my control; if you want to read what I’ve written and decide that means I have some sort of grudge against Carl and everything he stands for… fair enough.
I don’t get to decide your opinions. But I do get to put the information out there.
(also – I’m not sure how you get ‘silly’ from “being honest with people about what you’re going to do with their donations”. Sounds more like ‘best practice’ to me)
That post you quote… doesn’t actually mention Dave does it?
Simon – e-mail the pic over
But as I said to Lisa up at the top – Zombie Aid may have said ‘proceeds’ in some places (indeed, they say so in one of the screenshots I’ve posted), which is certainly an ambiguous term, they ALSO said ‘donations’ and ‘every penny’ in other places.
And yes, Carl Whiteley is aware of this blog and has responded to an e-mail I sent him earlier today asking for any comments. Whether I am the ‘member of the public’ he is referring to in blogmella’s quote is something only Carl knows.
I do Dave, I have a screen shot that I sent over to my friend last year telling them to come over.
The link wont work now but it clearly states PROCEEDS
What is your email? I will mail you the picture, see id we can put this to bed. If you are worried about posting your email you can mail me privately. You have it as I had to put it in when posting here
Thanks
Hello
I have looked at your screen shots. Once clearly states that all donations made go to charity. Clicking that takes me to a page that looks like it was for the MCFC event as it has the downloadable sponsor form and has dates for upcoming events stating they are TBC in August, making it look like this page was intended for the Summer event.
The link under it clearly states ALL PROCEEDS go to charity. PROCEEDS in the English dictionary are FINANCIAL GAIN or PROFIT – LEFTOVERS.
The second link clearly states that. It also say Zombie Aid makes no PROFIT. All seems ok to me.
So long as that organisation do not profit they are in the clear. Your own evidence shows this.
I am going to contact the organisers and tell them this too. Its obvious there has been a mess up but not by them. Perhaps they haven’t been as clear as possible, but they have done no wrong
E-mail sent
If it was ‘clearly intended’ for the MCFC event, it’s unusual that nowhere on the page are the words ‘SportCity’ or ‘MCFC’ mentioned. The sponsorship form is pretty generic.
More notably, that particular screenshot was taken in March 2011 – why was it still part of the Zombie Aid site if it referred ONLY to a cancelled event? And even if it was ‘intended’ to refer to a previous event, it was still the information on the Charities page during the run up to the actual event – so it’s the information people will have read, because people visiting Zombie Aid promotional sites can’t read Carl’s mind, or read what should have been written there – only what IS.
You are, incidentally, repeating Carl almost word-for-word now. Simon.
“That post you quote… doesn’t actually mention Dave does it?”
No, it doesn’t, so maybe it was about somebody else.